Thjazi Fang is at the center of Critical Role Campaign 4. His public execution was the catalyst for everything in the campaign. While he may be the key to the campaign he hasn’t necessarily been the prime motivation for every table. However, his influence and shadow looms over many characters perhaps most clearly with The Schemers Table.
This table includes Marisha Ray, Liam O’Brien, Luis Carazo, and Taliesin Jaffe led by Game Master Brennan Lee Mulligan. While Thjazi is dead his actions, relationships, and mission have shaped each of these characters in deep and unexpected ways. This group has been dropped directly into the mess he left in Dol-Makjar as they attempt to put the pieces of a larger puzzle together without seeing the full picture.
In an exclusive interview with Temple of Geek, Carazo and Jaffe shares insight into their characters. Carazo breaks down how Thjazi shaped Azune and his view on the world. Jaffe teases Bolaire’s feelings about Thjazi and his impact on Bolaire’s relationship with Hal.
Is Thjazi Fang A Good Man In Critical Role Campaign 4?
Temple of Geek: Brennan said something in episode 20 that really stuck with me and I found interesting, which was, is Thjazi even a good man? And I’m really curious about Bolaire’s thoughts on this. Not just because they have this antagonistic relationship, but because he’s been around for so long. So, he’s seen the darkest parts of a lot of the history. So, what are his thoughts on Thjazi, who, while trying to make things better, has gone about it in a very ends-justify-the-means way?
Taliesin Jaffe:
Bolaire’s standpoint is always interesting because it’s from such an inhuman space. So, the even notion of “a good man” is, I think, very performative for him. I would say he knows that he’s a cruel man. I think from a larger sense, and I’m probably going to steal this out of Luis’s mouth here, there comes a point when someone is a revolutionary or someone has something they believe in so passionately.
An idea that they’ve devoted themselves to, it is inevitable that you are going to become a monster, and he is a monster. I will say that he is an extremely righteous monster in my opinion. You don’t become a revolutionary figure without betraying everyone you’ve ever known and loved.
Temple of Geek: I know Azune is in a very weird space now that Thjazi is gone. Because the center of his world and kind of what everything orbited around was pulled away. And then these people that he saw as, not necessarily peers, but people he could trust through being war buddies, all kind of left him behind. He doesn’t really trust the relationships he has in the city. Where do you think he is mentally with all that? Is it just this: put one foot in front of the other and keep moving? Because like at the end of the last episode, we saw he has power. People trust and believe in him. There are a ton of people that want to fight for him and his cause simply by spreading a rumor. How do you think he views all of that?
Luis Carazo:
I think that he’s slowly absorbing things and coming into his own in ways that, I think, are a little bit unexpected to him. Because, now, stripping all that away, the centerpiece of his identity is gone, and he’s kind of left to figure out how he swims on his own. But now there are people that are around him that he’s connecting to in a new way, in a way that I don’t think he ever maybe felt like he was allowed to before because there were all these things in the way, the conditions set forth.
But right now with the Schemer’s group, this is the closest he’s been working with people, because that was never his assignment. His assignment was to be the solo man on the inside. Now his assignment has changed, and now he’s dictating some of what that assignment can look like, and this is all brand new. Walls are coming down in ways that he’s unaware of, some unaware of, some I think he may be aware of.
And other things are going to start to come up, so this is all really uncharted territory for him. Don’t really know what’s on the horizon. One step at a time, kind of, is a way that he might go about it. But when he realizes, “Oh sh-t, I can run? How fast can I run?” I think he has that in him as well. Which could be dangerous.
Taliesin Jaffe:
I love watching people who are used to conditional love suddenly see the walls come down. It’s really fun. God, you’re good! You’re so good!
Thjazi Continues To Impacts Azune & Bolaire’s Relationships
Temple of Geek: I think one of the things that’s very cool about Bolaire and Hal’s relationship is that Bolaire didn’t want to hide from him. Bolaire wanted the truth and was forced to kind of hide. Now that Thjazi, who was kind of that obstacle, is gone, how is he feeling because he didn’t get to decide how and when to tell Hal? Now, these other two people also know the truth. Is this something where he feels like he can start to trust these people or he’s already starting to trust these people? Or does this put up another obstacle in his path?
Taliesin Jaffe:
Bolaire is, on a certain level, extremely self-centered. There’s a part of him that definitely feels that a lot of this is very, very aware of how this plan that Thjazi put in motion really f-cked him specifically. And could have been done in a much kinder way to his situation, and it wasn’t. And wasn’t ever going to be. There will come a point where we get into just how terribly Thjazi treated Bolaire. It was enough for a good giggle at that man’s funeral. That was well earned, and we will get into that.
Hopefully, eventually go into that. Bolaire as a character is somebody who practices conversations in their head. Likes to be on top of things. Likes to already know what they’re going to say. Likes to have an idea of people’s reactions, and then when people surprise them, just adds that to the data. Likes control and likes a world that is ordered and structured. This has been the opposite of that. There are things that he would like to express to Hal that he cannot about the nature of, and not romantic things, nothing like that, but the nature of what Hal means to him. And what he has given him.
There’s just no space for it, and it’s not in a space where it could be received. And he knows that. So, his honesty has been robbed of him. And honesty, or at the very least truth, not necessarily honesty, is the most fundamental core of him. He has literally just had it taken away. He’s like, “I want to show you what this means, but I can’t because it will freak you the f-ck out. It will go very poorly, and I need this.”
Even amongst the conversations I’ve watched people have online, no one has quite figured out exactly what that is. Part of it is just because the mechanisms of how the Panto Masks work haven’t really been gotten into yet. Spoilers! Spoilers!
Temple of Geek: One of the things I think is really interesting with Azune is how his relationship with Thjazi has colored his view on every other relationship he has. Because he has this distrust of his relationship with Hal. He has this distrust of his relationship with Murray. Can you talk to me a little bit about not only kind of the inspiration for that, but how you hope to see that maybe kind of grow out of him and what you think that might take? Because it just, it seems so ingrained in him.
Luis Carazo
Yeah, I think this is like my psychology background making its way into how I create a character and the different sorts of dominoes that fall and make other inevitable dominoes be necessary in that trajectory. To me, there’s certain things that stick out. Like, remembering my actual father saying, “You have to be useful.”
And the seed that’s planted with, you have to be useful; if you’re not, you’ll be discarded. It has the potential to put someone young and impressionable in this position of thinking, “Well, then the value and care given to me is conditional. So I have to remain useful. Otherwise, I’m going to lose whatever I’ve been given due to this conditional nature.” So couple that with then seeing Thjzai work and, in a way, one of the things I feel like I remember in those early stages is watching how he is with Thimble.
Watching how he is with other people and sort of feeling a little bit on the outer part of the inner circle. If the seed’s been planted that things are conditional and you have to remain useful. If you are useful, then you’ll get attention and you will be valued, but then you’re kind of a little bit on the outside. What can become internalized is, “What have I done wrong? What have I not done enough of to earn the affection that I’m seeing and the connection that I’m seeing being given to somebody else? What is it that they did to earn it?”
And then, just a terrible storm of dominoes that lead you to, well, if he kept me sort of on the outside, and then when we get to Dol-Majkar, he kept me very much on the outside, I need to be more useful. I need to be more of value. And now, I’m maybe a little suspicious about people that have any sort of affection or connection coming my way. What is it that I gave you that earned that? What was the conditions behind this?
Taliesin Jaffe:
Oh man, we really haven’t talked enough about our individual experiences with that f-cking man. It’s always these interviews where we’re like, “Oh, yeah, we should really like talk about it.”
Luis Carazo
It’s come up, interestingly. Maybe it was subtle but I mean, Caitlin I think you picked up on it. I basically asked Hal, “What were the conditions that made you open up your doors for me? What was the deal between you and the Thjazi?” I’ve had, I think, something like that come up with Murray for sure. And then, the conversation that I had with Bolaire was, “Can you be a thing and a person at the same time?” It’s this different revelation. A different sort of position of that kind of theme.
Taliesin Jaffe:
Oh, there’s so many talks I can’t wait to have with you on camera. Oh, there’s never enough.
Luis Carazo:
I know! There’s never enough time because Brennan keeps making us fight for our lives.
Bolaire & Azune’s Unexpected Parallels
Temple of Geek: That actually made me think out of a lot of the characters we’ve seen, because everyone kind of has these masks and these versions of themselves they present. But it feels like in a way Bolaire is almost, around the people he somewhat trusts, the most honest, while Azune is always the most hidden. Even just not correcting your pronunciation.
Luis Carazo:
Yeah.
Taliesin Jaffe:
Boy I identify with that.
Luis Carazo:
It’s an interesting thing. Well, Taliesin and I have mentioned before that it’s interesting to discover parallels that we have with each other. And much of it is just purely accidental. Some of it is, and I’ve said this before, is because we are spending so much time together and because of the history with each other, and I am interested in exploring someone who’s impressionable.
It would be wrong for me to say Bolaire hasn’t been influencing Azune’s perception of himself and perception of Thjazi. It’s interesting to see the parallels and to see how that continues to evolve. I mean, Taliesin, Bolaire, has definitely had an impact on my trajectory. And I’m going to stop talking because I feel like the thoughts that are coming to mind are spoiler-ish.
Taliesin Jaffe:
I know it’s a fight. And weirdly, I agree in the other direction. We are definitely two characters who are, by their very nature, extremely impressionable. And then throwing two very impressionable people into a room together, and god only knows what the feedback loop is going to turn into. But, yeah, I was surprised how much our two characters had in common once we got into it. I was not expecting to have anything in common with your character. And then when we got into it, I’m like, “Oh, this is the one that makes the most sense to me. Oh no.”
The Schemers Table arc wrapped up on “Critical Role” May 7, 2026. New episodes of “Critical Role” debut on Beacon, Twitch, and YouTube on May 21 with all three tables reuniting for the first time since the initial Campaign 4 overture.
